Escape-Central - Ford's Official Message Re: Escape Tranny & Torque Converter

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-- Ford's Official Message Re: Escape Tranny & Torque Converter (http://www.escape-central.com/1forum/showthread.php?threadid=6284)

Posted by threeo2 on 01-25-2003 03:47 AM:

Escape Transmission/torque Converter Problems

hey guys, i just left one of the dealerships that i sell to and while i was there i spoke with a friend of mine. he is one of the top transmissions experts for Ford in the country. We have been having some noise and vibration from or Escape and based on the symptoms, i suspected the transmission. I told him about it and said that they are having some trouble with them. (V6 automatic) 2001-2003, but as of yet, they havnt compiled enough data to warrant a recall status, but that there definetly is a problem and Ford is aware of it. My vehicle is out of warranty with over 68K miles. He said right now the quick fix is to drain and flush and refill the trans. I dont know if the drain flush and fill are covered under warranty or not. He suggested that i have it done and if Ford decides to give the issue a recall status that they should reimberse me if i hang onto my paperwork. the symptoms are shuddering and reluctance to shift around 40 MPH. below is the bulliten word for word.

BROADCAST MESSAGE #0366
RELEASED 1/24/2003

SOME 2001-2003 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH CD4E TRANSMISSION MAY EXHIBIT A SHUDDER COMING FROM THE TORQUE CONVERTER DURING APPLY OR RELEASE. ENGINEERING IS CURRENTLY INVESTIGATING VIA THE QUICKER SERVICE FIX (QSF) PROCESS. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IS EXSPECTED TO BE RELEASED DURING THE SECOND QUARTER OF 2003. AS A INTERIM SERVICE ACTION DRAIN, FLUSH, AND REFILL THE TRANSMISSION FLUID. PLEASE CONTINUE TO SUBMIT EDSR'S AND MONITOR OASIS FOR UPDATED INFORMATION.

RELATED TOPICS:

NEWS - Official Ford Service Fix for Shudder

Transmission Shuddering Issues: POLL

Ford's Official Tranny & Torque Converter Message

Transmission Flushed...

Posted by cwescapexlt4x4 on 01-25-2003 08:35 AM:

Thanks for the heads up.. should be interesting to see what comes of this...

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Posted by justagirl on 01-25-2003 06:51 PM:

Cool, it finally came out! I have been waiting for that.... The only thing worse than hearing you guys have problems is hearing that the dealers say "no problem found"!

I have a question for everyone that has had the fluid changed: Did it fix the problem to your satifaction? Please add comments if you have any!

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Posted by BEHR655 on 01-25-2003 07:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by justagirl
Cool, it finally came out! I have been waiting for that....

justagirl, did you know that was going to come out? I know you probably couldn't say anything but I'm just curious. Blink once for yes and twice for no.

__________________

Posted by justagirl on 01-25-2003 08:59 PM:

Well, y'all already know that I work for Ford, right?
Hope is on the horizon....
I can't say much, but I will say we are working on it!

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Posted by ke4yyd on 01-26-2003 06:17 AM:

To Justagirl;

I flushed the tranny and the shudder is gone. If the fluid failed this quick is it the fluid's fault or the tranny?

I am not satisfied with this cure as it will most likely need it again. Ford says the tranny fluid should last the like of the vehicle.

Also did you see my post about the "clunking transmission"? Just wondering if everything is related.

Posted by justagirl on 01-27-2003 09:07 PM:

ke4yyd-
I did see your other post, I am not sure why a flush would cause the clunking..... I was going to see if I can find anything out, but I have been kind of busy with the other issue...
There will be more permanent fix I hope by the first week in April, your dealer should do it as the Oasis says the flush is only an interim measure. The fluid that this transmission is using is not synthetic, and we do recommend changing it every 30k, especially in severe duty cases (like taxi and police or towing). I am not sure where your dealer got that info!

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Posted by MikeQBF on 01-27-2003 09:59 PM:

justagirl -

Confirming that the problem has gone away since changing to the syn-blend fluid we talked about before; about 600 miles worth. The first two times immediately after the change 4->3 was rough, but nothing since. Still very smooth, too.

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Posted by jeffnf on 01-27-2003 10:34 PM:

Mine just went in today for this problem. I've got about 25,000 miles on it and am hoping the dealership doesn't charge me for a transmission flush. The tech who took my keys and talked to me about the problem seemed like he was implying that I might have to have the flush done a bit early and that I'd have to pay for it.

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by jeffnf on 01-27-2003 11:56 PM:

Just got an update from the dealer. Someone from the ZF (zed-f) plant will be test driving my Escape today. The car is at a dealer on the east side of Cincinnati and the ZF plant is in Batavia, which is maybe 1/2 an hour away.

I'll report back when I find out more information about what's wrong and what they're going to do to my Escape.

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by mzgloves20 on 01-28-2003 01:27 AM:

I had one incident with mine this morning...seemed to be reluctant to get into overdrive at about 40-45 mph... It was only 7 degrees out though...

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Posted by ke4yyd on 01-28-2003 01:52 AM:

Justagirl, the clunking seems to be tranny related. Iwas going on before the tranny flush with no changes after the flush.

Here are emails (2) about the fluid change intervals.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fitzgerald, Lori (L.J.)" <*****@ford.com>
To: "'David Hinton'" <ke4yyd "at" earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: Ford required scheduled maintenance

> David-
> I am glad your question has been answered. I had passed it on through Ford engineering, so if I learn anything else that would be helpful to you I will be sure to let you know. If you have any other questions or comments, please feel free to contact me and I will do what I can to help.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Lori Fitzgerald
> Ford Product Development Engineering
> Email: *****@ford.com
> Phone: (313)***-****
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Hinton [mailto:ke4yyd "at" earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:33 PM
> To: *****@yahoo.com
> Subject: Ford required scheduled maintenance
>
>
> In reply to the Edmunds forum question concerning REQUIRED scheduled
> maintenance necessary to maintain my extended warranty on the CD4E
> transmission in my 2001 Ford Escape, I received a phone call from Ford
> Customer Relations this afternoon. I was informed that their was no
> requirement to change the transmission fluid at a specific mileage. The
> fluid needed to be inspected and changed when the inspection indicated
> problems with the fluid.
>
> This was in agreement in my interpretation of the Scheduled Maintenance
> Guide that came with my vehicle. The confusion occurred because my dealer
> and independent service guides said the fluid change was REQUIRED at 30,000
> miles. I was assured that this was not the case. This is in agreement with
> the Edmunds Long Term Road Test on the 2001 Mazda Tribute. In the June 2002
> report they indicated that a transmission fluid change was not REQUIRED at
> 30,000 miles.
>
> http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/long...29/page018.html
>
>
> If you have more information on this subject please let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Hinton

And finnally,

To confirm the Ford Customer Relations line answer, I have been told by
Customer Service and the transmission folks that for normal customer use,
the CD4E transmission fluid is good essentially for the life of the vehicle,
to be checked and changed at 150,000 miles as indicated on page 33 of the
scheduled maintenance guide (CD4E falls into the "other" category).

Lori Fitzgerald

Posted by jeffnf on 01-28-2003 05:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ke4yyd
To confirm the Ford Customer Relations line answer, I have been told by
Customer Service and the transmission folks that for normal customer use,
the CD4E transmission fluid is good essentially for the life of the vehicle,
to be checked and changed at 150,000 miles as indicated on page 33 of the
scheduled maintenance guide (CD4E falls into the "other" category).

And every dealer you go to will try to sell you a transmission flush every 30,000 miles. Considering the problems that these transmissions can have (including the torque converter shudder), changing the fluid every 30,000 miles may not be such a bad idea.

Unfortunately, it gets expensive. At $140 per flush, that's $700 for all flushes up to and including the 150,000 mile flush, compared to $140 for just one flush at 150,000 miles.

They determined that my Escape indeed does have the torque converter shudder. The dealer tech that I talked to last night said something about some escapes not getting the correct transmission fluid and transmission fluid dipstick. I was confused by that statement.

The plan is to flush the transmission then have the ZF employee test drive it again to see if it improves. Hopefully it will work and they'll get all this done today. When I pick it up, I'll ask again about what fluid they put in it and if anything needed done to the dipstick.

I'm certainly going to keep copies of all my paperwork to prove that the shudder was there while the vehicle was under warranty. I don't want to pay for expensive repairs after 36,000 miles when the problem was clearly there at 25,000 miles. Although the way things are going with this issue, I'd hope Ford would extend the warranty on the torque converter to cover the shudder problem.

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by whippet on 01-29-2003 01:48 AM:

I had (and paid for) the fluid flush right before I hit 30K. The shudder had been occuring for at least 6 months prior, but I had only recently become aware of the posts here. After the flush it has shuddered about 3 seperate times in the first couple days, but always when the OD was engaging, not disengaging as was the case before the flush. It hasn't shuddered in the past week or so, but it takes a much higher RPM for the OD to engage now. I've also noticed a pretty dramatic drop in my gas mileage, but that might be because I just put on new Michelin Cross Terrains.

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2001 XLS V6 4X4
busted tranny!

Posted by Norse on 01-29-2003 04:33 AM:

Just had the power flush done to my Escape @ 32k and the shudder is gone. I too noticed that the cruising rpm's are between 300 & 400 rpm higher. It looks like my mpg's are slightly lower, but I'm not sure how much the 10 min morning warm ups and mtbe gas additives they add around here are driving my mpg's down. Hopefully Ford will reimburse me for the cost of this tranny power flush

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Posted by GregM on 01-29-2003 06:28 AM:

Cost of a flush....

For DIYers the cost of a flush is about $10 (a $1 a quart if you buy Mercon ATF at Costco, Mobil).

The hardest part of the flush is taking off the plastic splash guard on the tranny side of the engine and routing the return cooler hose into a gallon jug.
Also, you could add the cost of the Magnafine external filter ($20).

But the dealer will charge you extra for that also....

Happy tranny flush,

Greg

Posted by jeffnf on 01-29-2003 06:14 PM:

Just got our Escape back last night. They said it had the wong dipstick and the wrong fluid in it. The dipstick said "Mercon V". The tech told me they "ground off" the "V" on the dipstick and flushed the transmission with Mercon. He also said to be sure to use Mercon if I ever need to top it off for any reason.

Anyway, I haven't had much of a chance to drive it (I drive my Aerostar to work during the week and my wife gets the Escape), but it did seem a bit different when shifting.

Luckily, they covered the cost of the flush under warranty, so I didn't have to argue or fight about that.

I'm going to keep my eyes open for the "real fix". Hopefully this information will be posted on Escape Central as soon as someone here finds out what the fix is and what all the details are (like do I get the fix since mine shuddered in the past, or do I have to wait for it to shudder again before I get the fix).

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2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by justagirl on 01-29-2003 07:00 PM:

I am trying to track down the info regarding Mercon vs Mercon V. Everything (documentation) I have found so far is Mercon only. I can tell you for sure that they are DESIGNED for Mercon only. I don't know for sure what info is out there for service.
I don't know much about the additive differences between the two, but I do know that viscosity is significantly different at the lower temps (V is more "fluid"). Below freezing I am not sure what will happen with V, as everything is calibrated for the slower response times of the thicker fluid.
The V is a better fluid, but the CD4E just isn't designed or calibrated for it, and I would recommend against changing to it.
I also am looking for documentation about fluid changes, I have heard both ways internally (at work) as well. It's very intriguing to me that some of you are losing fuel econ after the flush... I plan on looking into that as well.

And don't worry, I will DEFINATELY post any info I have on fixes when they become available!

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Posted by jeffnf on 01-29-2003 07:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by justagirl
The V is a better fluid, but the CD4E just isn't designed or calibrated for it, and I would recommend against changing to it.

Lovely. I'm hoping that in the 25,000 miles mine said "Mercon V" on the dipstick that I didn't do any damage to the transmission. The thing did shudder, but I'm not sure that's related.

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by justagirl on 01-29-2003 07:16 PM:

It probably didn't damage anything. I talked to the guy that drove your truck, and he seemed to think it was ok. I have worked with him before and I trust his judgement.

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Posted by TributeBlue on 01-30-2003 06:55 AM:

HHHHMMMM, I wonder if Ford got a bad load of Mercon one month??? How about recording a plot to see when these vehicles were built. I still get rid of the ATX fluid around 30K miles. Oil never wears out, the additives do. They keep the oil sane and clean the machinery while working the hydraulics.
Jiffy lube joints do a complete flush for about 75 bucks. Dealers wack you for about 150 to 200 including the enviromental fees.

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Posted by justagirl on 01-30-2003 04:52 PM:

There is no correlation between build month and shudder. We already checked that!

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Posted by jeffnf on 01-30-2003 04:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by justagirl
It probably didn't damage anything. I talked to the guy that drove your truck, and he seemed to think it was ok. I have worked with him before and I trust his judgement.

Cool. Was this the guy from the Batavia plant? I didn't get to talk to him in person.

I got all my information second and third hand from the "Service Advisor" at Beechmont Ford. While helpful, it's just sometimes strange that I never get to talk to the person who actually worked on my car. If I was going under the knife for some kind of surgery, I wouldn't put up with this sort of thing, but since it's "only a car"...

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by WhatsNew on 01-31-2003 09:26 PM:

Escape Design Sketch Concepts

quote:
Originally posted by threeo2
hey guys, i just left one of the dealerships that i sell to and while i was there i spoke with a friend of mine. he is one of the top transmissions experts for Ford in the country. We have been having some noise and vibration from or Escape and based on the symptoms, i suspected the transmission. I told him about it and said that they are having some trouble with them. (V6 automatic) 2001-2003, but as of yet, they havnt compiled enough data to warrant a recall status, but that there definetly is a problem and Ford is aware of it. My vehicle is out of warranty with over 68K miles. He said right now the quick fix is to drain and flush and refill the trans. I dont know if the drain flush and fill are covered under warranty or not. He suggested that i have it done and if Ford decides to give the issue a recall status that they should reimberse me if i hang onto my paperwork. the symptoms are shuddering and reluctance to shift around 40 MPH. below is the bulliten word for word.

BROADCAST MESSAGE #0366
RELEASED 1/24/2003

SOME 2001-2003 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH CD4E TRANSMISSION MAY EXHIBIT A SHUDDER COMING FROM THE TORQUE CONVERTER DURING APPLY OR RELEASE. ENGINEERING IS CURRENTLY INVESTIGATING VIA THE QUICKER SERVICE FIX (QSF) PROCESS. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IS EXSPECTED TO BE RELEASED DURING THE SECOND QUARTER OF 2003. AS A INTERIM SERVICE ACTION DRAIN, FLUSH, AND REFILL THE TRANSMISSION FLUID. PLEASE CONTINUE TO SUBMIT EDSR'S AND MONITOR OASIS FOR UPDATED INFORMATION.

Great finde threeo2!

Posted by roush6car on 02-01-2003 08:44 AM:

My 02' dipstick Handle (yellow top) reads MERCON V , then if you read the blade it reads use only MERCON!!!! Got my 02'Escape in Oct. 01'- No shuddering to date-10,000 miles. Which is in my tranny MERCON or MERCON V & should I have it changed ASAP???? Please help!!! Thanks , Roush6car

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Posted by justagirl on 02-01-2003 05:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jeffnf

Cool. Was this the guy from the Batavia plant? I didn't get to talk to him in person.

I got all my information second and third hand from the "Service Advisor" at Beechmont Ford. While helpful, it's just sometimes strange that I never get to talk to the person who actually worked on my car. If I was going under the knife for some kind of surgery, I wouldn't put up with this sort of thing, but since it's "only a car"...

Yes, he works for ZF - he's in charge of the warranty garage there. I know it stinks getting all your info 2nd or 3rd hand. He probably didn't actually work on your car, just took it out for a test drive and told the dealer what he thought and what to do about it.

Posted by jeffnf on 02-04-2003 06:42 PM:

We've not noticed any change in "cruising RPM" since having the transmission flushed.

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2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by missyd322 on 02-04-2003 06:49 PM:

Has anyone had a problem with complete transmission"breakdown." My escape is unfortunately not under warrenty anymore, with 37700 miles, and now I need an entire new transmission, costing $3500. Does this just not seem right to anyone else?

Posted by jeffnf on 02-04-2003 07:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by missyd322
Has anyone had a problem with complete transmission"breakdown." My escape is unfortunately not under warrenty anymore, with 37700 miles, and now I need an entire new transmission, costing $3500. Does this just not seem right to anyone else?

Yes. I'd use the search button on this site and look for "transmission failure" or "replace transmission" and you should find others who've had this happen.

Since yours failed so close to the limit of 36,000 miles I'd certainly do everything possible to get Ford to at least pay part of the cost. Having a simple part replaced at 37700 miles wouldn't bother me, but the entire transmission doesn't sound acceptable.

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by TimeBandit on 02-04-2003 08:46 PM:

I have a bad transmission

I have a V-6 4-wheel drive automatic 2001 Escape. I don't take great care of it (i speed and never wash it...) but have had my share of oil and fluid changes. I just did the "Ford 60,000 mile check-up service" a month or 2 ago when I had 50,000 miles and there was no mention of any issues from the Ford place during that time. I have 58,000 now - yes I drive far for work.

Last Sunday 02-02-03 I noticed trouble when the Escape needed to shift... it was really slow getting to the shift. That night my O/D light was flashing - transmission trouble. I was fortunately at my destination so I pulled in and turned off the vehicle. Starting it up again later there was no flashing light but when I put the Escape into DRIVE it wouldn't move. REVERSE wouldn't move. I switched into 4-wheel drive, it wouldn't move.

I had it towed and today I find out my 2001 Escape with 58,000 miles needs a new transmission to the tune of $2800 at a Ford dealership in Frederick, MD.

Anyone else have a similar issue? I haven't had any accidents that would have been enough to cause damage, I would think, to the transmission (in other words I have hit a deer that pushed my fog light into the body of the truck but there was no other damage, I have had deer hit ME but there was no damage, I had a rear right tire go flat after hitting a rock). I don't do any off-roading though u can probably tell I live where there's lots of deer! I haven't done anything wacky like shifting the truck into REVERSE while moving forward at 30MPH, or anything like that. I do drive fast, maybe 80MPH everyday back and forth to work.

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------
John

Posted by GregM on 02-05-2003 04:21 AM:

TimeBandit.... did you do any thing like..

..have a transmission flush (suppose to be done at 30K)

or put an external transmission filtere (Ford or Magnafine).

Just curious.

Thanks for the feedback,

Greg

Posted by lemmy999 on 02-05-2003 04:19 PM:

I have heard many people say that tranny flushes are not a good thing to do. That it is better to just drain out as much as you can, fill it back up, cycle through the gears, then drain and fill back up again (of course some of the old fluid would still be in there). Also, every synthetic ATF I find says something like "Exceeds Mercon III and Mercon". So is this ok to use?

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Posted by justagirl on 02-05-2003 06:38 PM:

Hm, don't know about a trans flush being a bad thing, unless it's done wrong.... I have heard something similar about engine oil changes, if you haven't done it regularly when you do go to do it some of the sludge can be knocked loose and block an oil passage. I wonder if what you heard was a similar type of idea?

About the trans fluid, it might exceed some of specifications for fluid breakdown or viscosity, or a hundred other factors, but we didn't validate any of the other fluids, so there is no telling what can happen.

An example of the unforseen things that can happen - one of the guys at work was telling me about a fluid they had in Taiwan that was leaching the lead out of the bushings... (that's bad!) good thing no one here will have access to that fluid ....

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Posted by TimeBandit on 02-05-2003 10:16 PM:

Re: TimeBandit.... did you do any thing like..

quote:
Originally posted by GregM
..have a transmission flush (suppose to be done at 30K)

or put an external transmission filtere (Ford or Magnafine).

Just curious.

I had "60,000 mile service" a couple months ago which I think means replacing transmission fluid. I have to admit that I know nothing about automobiles and rely on a mechanic to know what my truck needs (i hear you laughing). I have missed a couple services that my Escape owner's manual tells me I should have, but overall have probabaly kept up with 80% of those suggested services. Ask me about web design or playing guitar...

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John

Posted by JoshC on 02-18-2003 12:31 AM:

Well i guess i can jump on the band wagon too. We bought our Escape at 69,000 miles, at 40,000 miles it had a torque converter put in it. I guess i should go ahead and change the fluid and filter? How much are the external filters and what are the advantages? And, i don't think i read anything about synthetic being a good thing or not, anyone know? Thanks.

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Posted by 02 wht trib on 02-20-2003 11:07 AM:

Ok so I have read the above posts and don't know what to think. Shallow? Maybe.

Would someone please tell me (brand & type of fluid, filter type and brand) if this service needs to be done now. I just hit 30k today and I have a horrible shifting tranny.

Is it wise to have dealer do this or a quickie change place?

I also think Ford/Mazda should be liable for this R/T multiple reports of failure and false advertisement that this fluid doesn't need to be changed until 150k.

Ray

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Posted by lemmy999 on 02-20-2003 04:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by justagirl
Hm, don't know about a trans flush being a bad thing, unless it's done wrong.... I have heard something similar about engine oil changes, if you haven't done it regularly when you do go to do it some of the sludge can be knocked loose and block an oil passage. I wonder if what you heard was a similar type of idea?

Yes, that is what I heard. If you do a flush and there is any sludge anywhere, it will wash it into the valve body and start causing problems. I think I actually read that on this board several months back. And it seemed that everyone was saying that transmission flushes were a bad thing to do.

__________________
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Mach, Leather, Moonroof, Side Step Bars

Posted by jeffnf on 02-20-2003 05:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by 02 wht trib
Would someone please tell me (brand & type of fluid, filter type and brand) if this service needs to be done now. I just hit 30k today and I have a horrible shifting tranny.

Horrible shifting tranny? If you've only got 30k on it, it's still under warranty. I'd take it to the dealer to have the flush done (the filter cannot be replaced during this procedure since that would require the tranny to be torn down). When you drop it off, I'd ask them to check the computer for codes and test drive it (before and after the flush) to check for any transmission problems.

If you don't do this now, you could be paying for a new transmission after the warranty expires (that is, unless you have an extended warranty).

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by bgunther on 02-20-2003 06:55 PM:

Update on the tranny situation

I just got my vehicle back for the 2nd time for the hesitation/rough-shifting phenomenon. 1st visit they applied a TSB replacing various parts including throttle valve assembly, etc... When I got the vehicle back from this update, situation was much better but still received hestitation around 50mph and 65 mph...I describe it as a hesitation and a subsequent 'push' as the tranny engages...Anyway, I got it back yesterday (2/19/03) and they performed the trans flush but notified me that ford was expecting a resolution to this issue in the 1-2 month time frame. I will re-post again when work is finally completed to my satisfaction. FYI - Even with the problem, it is a wonderful vehicle! Bill G. - Tampa, Fl

Posted by katbird on 02-24-2003 04:05 PM:

Zippy (my 5 month old Escape) has a humming vibration in the gas pedal when RPMS fall below 2000. Does it 8 out of 10 times. Gets worse on a longer trip. Is this the shudder everyone is referring to? I have taken to the dealer three times within one month to no avail. Any comments anyone?

Posted by tcbgator on 02-24-2003 05:34 PM:

This "Shutter" everyone is talking about, did it first start off slow or BAM all at once and doed it continue to shutter.

The reason I ask - I was running around the weekend and I felt a shutter (or what I thought was a shutter) when it shifted into OD. Now I have just under 25K on my Escape and it happend only 3 times on Saturday.

The first time it happened and it was noticable, second time a little less shutter and a third time sill less noticable. It did not shutter anymore and it only happend when it shifed and not while runnig at a constant speed.

Is this the problem everone else has and is it the same pattern. And for the record - I have one of those "defective dipstics" - but thanks to this site I now know what to use.

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Posted by JoshC on 02-25-2003 03:00 AM:

Well, when ours started to do it, it happened slowly. Then things started to get worse. It started to shutter or miss all the time. I had to go out of town this last weekend and i'll be gone for 2 weeks so my wife is with out a vehicle. She had to take it to ford today. I told them to flush the transmission, so they did. Took it for a drive and said it was still doing it and the check engine light was on. So they put the tester to it and it has a miss in cylinder 1. Going to cost 480 plus tax to check that out and that price does include the tranny flush. That ****s. It's even worse because i'm out of town. Any one had a coil to go bad yet? He said that's probably what it was, but you have to take the intake off to get to it.

__________________
2001 Ford Escape XLS
1997 Ford Explorer
2003 Chevy 2500 HD (tow rig)

Posted by WD40 on 02-25-2003 03:11 AM:

How much are you using overdrive?

Originally posted 01-17-03.
That post kinda died, so I thought I'd put it here:

I'm curious.
After keeping an eye for on this thread for a while, there's not a lot of mention of "cancelling" the overdrive around town.
Are most of you that are having the problems, leaving the overdrive on all the time?

In fact, it was my wife that brought this question up. Her words....
"How come you have to turn the overdrive off, instead of vice versa, especially when you shouldn't even be using it around town anyway?"
This comes from both of us reading several articles/bulletins/discussions/owner's manuals, etc etc,
touting the problems of leaving overdrive on, especially around town.
We've gotten in the habit of turning it off before we even put it into gear.
Once on the highway or, freeway, we then turn it on.
I know it's hard as heck on a tranny to go keep going in and out of "lock-up" at speeds under 50mph.
Is this one of things that being kept track of for your research, justagirl?

Just another viewpoint.
No problems with ours, and it's getting it's first oil change in a couple weeks.
Sittin' at just over 2,000 miles right now.

__________________
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Posted by Mach III on 02-25-2003 04:01 PM:

I drive mine the same way - the overdrive gets locked out before I even leave the driveway. It's too much wear (leaving the OD "active" and continuously searching) on a tranny that already has it's fair share of trouble. Only disengaged the button for highway driving.

And yes, I had the tranny shudder problem a while back when I would forget to lock out the overdrive around town; I don't forget anymore.

That's not to say that there isn't a problem with these transmissions. Technically, should it bang/shudder when going between Drive and Over Drive and back again? No.

__________________
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---------------
1993 40th Anniv. Triple Ruby Red Corvette Convertible. Designated "garage queen".

Posted by bananaescape on 03-05-2003 02:59 AM:

WOW!!!!! I DIDN'T UNTIL TODAY THAT THIS WAS AN ISSUE!! WOW WOW WOW!! I AM NOT ALONE!!! HELP SHOULD BE ON THE WAY THEN?? I HOPE!

__________________
2005 XLT Escape V6 4x4 Norsea Blue

Posted by lerdman on 03-05-2003 05:51 AM:

I have a 2002 Escape and had a tranny failure at 18000 miles. After a cold start, the transmission would only go forward while it was in reverse. We thought we could drive it a few miles to the Ford garage but the tranny would not shift into the higher gears and the OD light started to blink. We had the vehicle towed to the garage. When the vehicle arrived at the dealer the transmission worked OK. The dealer said that there were codes for transmission shutter and failure on the speed sensor. After talking to the Ford Hotline they replaced the sensor and the transmission. After reading the posts in this forum I asked the dealer which ATF they used. They said they filled the system with Mercon V. They said that it did'nt matter which fluid they used. Both Mercon and Mercon V will be fine. I have two questions:

1) When a REMFG tranny is shipped from Ford is it filled with ATF? If it is then my system is filled with both Mercon and Mercon V ATF. My manual says that these fluids are not compatible with each other.

2) According to a previous post from Justagirl
I am trying to track down the info regarding Mercon vs Mercon V. Everything (documentation) I have found so far is Mercon only. I can tell you for sure that they are DESIGNED for Mercon only.
Is any of that documentation available that I can take it back to my dealer. I would really like to have it flushed and filled with Mercon.

I really like all the information that can be found at this forum. Thanks in advance for any help.

Lamar

Posted by GregM on 03-05-2003 06:07 AM:

There is a post on one of the trans discussions that is a document from Ford's web site.

It includes all the tranny types and all the fluid types.

It clearly indicates that our tranny CD4E (?) using Mercon and NOT Mercon V.

This was within the last 2 months, I believe..

Also, I have 30K on my Trib and have flushed yearly with Mercon.... all works fine.

Good Luck,

Greg

Posted by GregM on 03-05-2003 06:21 AM:

Here's the link

That I mentioned in my message above....

http://www.ky-escaper.com/misc/fluids_usage.pdf

And here's the thread:

Wrong transmission fluid and dipstick?!? jeffnf Engine and Transmission 41 707 02-25-2003 10:26 PM
by earlier apex

If you do a search on Mercon it's the third thread....

Good luck,

Greg

Posted by matt02 on 03-23-2003 05:16 PM:

justagirl,

Since you are in the know on the tranny. I posted a message a while back about my tranny shifting too much. I think you made one reply to someone about disconnecting the battery. Is there something I can do about it shifting all the time. It seems to upshift too fast only to want to downshift toofast also and on the slightest little grade. It drives me crazy, luckily my wife drives it most of the time except weekends. With it shifting all the time I gotta wonder if this tranny is going to last even 100K. It doesn't seem to shudder like the others on here are complaining about, but it does have a vibration that comes through the gas pedal at about 45 mph to maybe say 65. The frequency increases with speed.

Thanks,

__________________
GONE! 2002 Silver Escape XLT 4X4 3.0
1998 F150 Lariat Supercab 4X4 Off Road 5.4

1993 Ford Taurus SHO
2003 Chrysler Town and Country

Posted by itchyrichy on 03-26-2003 02:08 AM:

Mercon Tranny fluid

I have the correct fluid requirements as per AllData as well as Mitchell's on Demand;

The CD4E transmission requires Mercon fluid,
part # XT-2-QDX (Quarts).

Do NOT use Mercon V.

I sure hope this resolves the issue.

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Posted by threeo2 on 04-02-2003 07:22 AM:

hey missyd, yes you should most certainly ask for some assistance from Ford, we had out first motor go out at around 35700 miles and Ford paid the whole bill, and gave us a (cheap) rental, when we got the new motor, it came with a 24K/24M warranty, the second motor went out at around 65000 miles, around 6000 miles out of the 2nd warranty. we complained to Ford and they agreed to pay everything but a $500 deductable. We have a little pull with Ford since we liquidate accessories for them on ebay and our website, but i dont think it came into play in this situation. if you complain enough they will do something for you, especially this close to your warranty period. good luck.

billy
bones enterprises

Posted by jdh1965 on 05-17-2003 09:50 PM:

Is it my imagination, or am i about to buy an Escape which is made with a transmission that is incapable of lasting 30,000miles. I have never heard so many stories of catastrophic failures, transmissions replaced two, sometimes three times. I really want to buy an Escape but after a day on the internet I am begining to think that only a fool would buy one. Can anybody enlighten me!!

Posted by justagirl on 05-17-2003 11:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jdh1965
Is it my imagination, or am i about to buy an Escape which is made with a transmission that is incapable of lasting 30,000miles. I have never heard so many stories of catastrophic failures, transmissions replaced two, sometimes three times. I really want to buy an Escape but after a day on the internet I am begining to think that only a fool would buy one. Can anybody enlighten me!!

There have been a couple of people asking that lately. The thing that you need to keep in mind is that of the thousands of people on this board, only a handful actually have problems. But because they are problems, they get discussed - and problems generally generate more air time than vehicles that are trouble free.
If you are concerned, take a look at consumer reports or one of the other services that provides statistics. I'm drawing a complete blank on the name of the one that Ford uses....
Anyway, the Escape isn't any worse any other vehicle out there statistically.

Posted by Ford Tek on 05-18-2003 01:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jdh1965
I really want to buy an Escape but after a day on the internet I am begining to think that only a fool would buy one. Can anybody enlighten me!!

You can't beleive everything you read on the internet. There are a lot of people "trolling" web sites stirring up all kinds of crap.

A transmission that is shuddering does not spell eminent danger.
It is the chattering of the lock-up clutch in the torque convertor. This is caused by the brake down of the transmission fluid.

As far as synthetic fluid, I don't see any advantage in using it. I know several people (including myself) that has tried synthetic fluid and it still "broke" down after 30K miles.

A transmission is the most complex component on your vehicle. With all the severe driving we do just treat it with some TLC and get the fluid flushed every 30K.

Posted by jdh1965 on 05-18-2003 03:46 AM:

So it is untrue that the CD4E Transmission is poorly designed and unreliable?

Posted by ke4yyd on 05-18-2003 06:07 AM:

jdh1965 Nope

Posted by jeffnf on 05-20-2003 05:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jdh1965
So it is untrue that the CD4E Transmission is poorly designed and unreliable?

If you're worried, buy an extended warranty from Ford. More times than not, you'll lose money by doing this (that's how they make money for Ford), but you'll have "peace of mind".

Your other option is to buy new cars and sell them when the warranty expires. If you're one of these types, I'd go for the Tribute, since the warranty goes to 50,000 miles for essentially the same vehicle (see other threads that discuss the differences).

__________________
2002 Escape XLT 4WD, V6, auto

Posted by CFMunster on 05-22-2003 02:20 AM:

transmission breakdown

quote:
Originally posted by missyd322
Has anyone had a problem with complete transmission"breakdown." My escape is unfortunately not under warrenty anymore, with 37700 miles, and now I need an entire new transmission, costing $3500. Does this just not seem right to anyone else?

I have a 2003 XLT 2WD I bought in February. It has 2800 miles on it, mostly highway driving. Yesterday while I was on my way to work the engine light came on and the "O/D Off" light started blinking. I took it to the dealer and today I get the word that the transmission needs MAJOR work and it's going to be a week just to get the parts.

All I can say is I am damn glad I spent the extra dosh to get the five year extended warranty. Just the cost of the rental car they are giving me will pay for at least this year's warranty premiums.

Is this just a freak occurrence? I see other posts about tranny problems but nothing with a brand new car.

Posted by Fig on 06-06-2003 10:52 PM:

Mine shudders

I'm glad I found this site. Had my wife's Escape in for the shudder and of course was told "can't duplicate problem". It's going back in next week for the same thing. I want to be sure I have the service request documented. If and when this transmission dies, I don't plan on spending a penny !
It has 27K on it and we first noticed the problem at arond 20K.
Keep all the good input flowing.

Thanks

__________________
2002 Bright Red XLT V6 4X4. AutoTruckToys intake,side step bars.

Posted by dhendrix on 06-07-2003 05:16 AM:

Shudder also

I too had a shudder problem. I just bought a 2001 XLT 4x4 with
22k. We love it. Took it in for the shudder problem this morning,
they did the oil change and chip recode. So far so good.
It had a very noticable shudder. Now it is gone.

I am sure that this is not the last I will see of transmission
trouble. But, I know for a fact that Ford and everyone else in
Detroit are having transmission troubles. I did get the extended
warranty, and I am glad I did. I am personally a
bad transmission magnet. My doughter trashed her tanny in her
94 Talon, My Wife's Voyager was repaired under warranty, then
rebuilt under my pocket book. I purchased a 96 explorer for my
son, low and behold, it started it's own studder shifting into O/D.
Fluid and filter cleared that one. The only transmission I haven't
had trouble with is My 5 speed S-10 4x4.

Have a great Day!!!

__________________
Donald

2001 XLT 4x4
Blue Metalic w/Side Bars,
Bug Deflector, Factory Solar Tint

Posted by 4x2 on 06-08-2003 10:09 PM:

GregM,

quote:
For DIYers the cost of a flush is about $10 (a $1 a quart if you buy Mercon ATF at Costco, Mobil).

The hardest part of the flush is taking off the plastic splash guard on the tranny side of the engine and routing the return cooler hose into a gallon jug.
Also, you could add the cost of the Magnafine external filter ($20).

But the dealer will charge you extra for that also....

Happy tranny flush,

Greg.

I've removed and replaced trannys in the driveway with handtools (not fun!) so I think I can handle this. Can you explain what needs to be done or post a link to a site that explains it.

Thanks,
4x2

Posted by Fig on 06-11-2003 07:51 PM:

Sudder Follow up

Put in the shop on Monday. I also enclosed a copy of the service bulletin from the begining of this thread.
I first had it in last Summer at 22k for this and it was the old can't duplicate answer.
This time it was the same answer on Monday but they wanted to keep it an extra day to make sure !
Bull sh-t ! they just wanted to make sure Ford was going to pay them the warranty dollars.
Anyway they flushed the transmssion and did the reset/download to the ECM and it seems to be just fine.
Any way it has 27K on and they didn't charge us a dime.

__________________
2002 Bright Red XLT V6 4X4. AutoTruckToys intake,side step bars.

Posted by NzDeV on 06-19-2003 02:03 AM:

:j How's it holding up fig? I haven't had any problems at all, but I'm thinking of taking mines in to be looked over before my bumper to bumper warranty expires.

__________________
Dave, 2001 Black XLT

Posted by Fig on 06-19-2003 05:25 PM:

So far so good

It's been doing great. Did my best to get it to shudder but it didn't.
I'm running it up to New Jersey this weekend and that should be the tell all.

__________________
2002 Bright Red XLT V6 4X4. AutoTruckToys intake,side step bars.

Posted by scape2 on 06-23-2003 07:22 AM:

Wow

I just got done reading all these problems with transmissions in Escapes and I have to admit It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I own a 2001 XLT V6 4wd with 28,000 trouble free miles, so far. I use this vehicle to tow 2 jet skiis, get to my favorite fishing spots in the Cascade Mountains, along with getting to hiking trails and hitting the slopes during skiing season. This vehicle has performed flawleslly. However, This week I am scheduled to take it in for an cooling system flush. I think I'm going to call and have them flush the transmission also..

__________________
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Posted by greenman on 06-24-2003 06:11 AM:

Are you the same scape2 that posts on EDMUND'S' FORUM?

__________________

Posted by magyart on 03-17-2004 12:53 AM:

Complete transmission failure with 5,100 mi.

quote:
Originally posted by missyd322
Has anyone had a problem with complete transmission"breakdown." My escape is unfortunately not under warrenty anymore, with 37700 miles, and now I need an entire new transmission, costing $3500. Does this just not seem right to anyone else?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I just returned home from the dealership Dick Masheter / Ford, in Columbus, Oh. I had my '04, 2WD, V6, auto. towed there Sunday evening. My 16 year old daughter was driving when the transmission failed. Ford's road side assistance was at the scene in 15 minutes.

It's presently disasembled and laid out on a work bench. The Tech. informed me a needle bearing failed (reason unknown) Small fragments of metal worked through the transmission and caused damage through out this transmission. The dealership is getting authorization from Ford to replace it with a new or rebuilt transmission. I requested a new transmission since it only has 5,100 miles.

Pior to this failure, I did 99% of the driving. The transmission never shutterred or failed to shift properly.

I also have a new Taurus for a loaner, at no charge. It unfortunate for this to happen , however, Ford is making it right, at no cost to me.

The customer service rep. informed me he had no knowledge of any transmission problems with the '04 Escapes. This was his first one. I didn't inquire how long he has worked there. I am printing out several pages of informstion regarding transmission troulbles that various members have posted. I'll give him a copy.

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Posted by magyart on 03-17-2004 05:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by justagirl
Well, y'all already know that I work for Ford, right?
Hope is on the horizon....
I can't say much, but I will say we are working on it!

I'll take some hope ! My new '04 (2WD, XLS, V6, auto) Escape with 5,100 miles, just sufferred a complete transmission failure. At the time this ocurred, the Escape lurched once or twicw and the "OD light off" was blinking. The Ford Tech. reported "needle bearing" failure. Small fragments of this bearing worked through out the transmission resulting a quite a bit of damage.

The dealership is checking with Ford regarding a replacement of a new or rebuilt transmission. I requested a new one, but I suspect the dealership is dependent of Ford Motor Co.

The Dealership just called, as I was typing this message. Ford authorized a new transmission. Yea ! I'll need to drive the "loaner" for a few more days. It was provided at "no charge". It's a nice Taurus, SE. However, I like driving the Escape better.

So, Ford has done everything possible to correct this. Road side assistance, provided by Ford, was available within 15 mins. I had it towed to the dealership where I bought it. They have always treated me well. (Dick Masheter - Ford, Columbus, OH) They immediately looked for the problem. Ford is putting in a new transmission and I have a nice "loaner" free of charge. I would rather not have encountered this problem, but it's better to have a failure at 5,100 miles, than 41,000 miles, since the Ford warranty is only 36,000 miles. Ford has truely taken care of the problem.

I'll need to check an older post, but someone had advised that Ford recommended installing a filter on any transmissions that failed. Again, Ford pays for the filter. It's $30-40. It's some type of "magnetic" filter, installed on or near the coolers ? That's all I know about it. I did inquire if Ford has this documented in any policy, procedure, or broadcast message. Might you be able to advise me on this ? Thanks in advance.

I also forgot to check on the warranty. I believe it should start new, for the new transmission. I want the new transmission warranty to be for another 36,000 miles. The odometer will read 41,100 miles. I'll need to ask. The worse they can say is, "No".

That's all for now.

Posted by Rick Zeman on 03-17-2004 07:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by magyart
I'll take some hope ! My new '04 (2WD, XLS, V6, auto) Escape with 5,100 miles, just sufferred a complete transmission failure. At the time this ocurred, the Escape lurched once or twicw and the "OD light off" was blinking. The Ford Tech. reported "needle bearing" failure. Small fragments of this bearing worked through out the transmission resulting a quite a bit of damage.

The dealership is checking with Ford regarding a replacement of a new or rebuilt transmission. I requested a new one, but I suspect the dealership is dependent of Ford Motor Co.

The Dealership just called, as I was typing this message. Ford authorized a new transmission. Yea ! I'll need to drive the "loaner" for a few more days. It was provided at "no charge". It's a nice Taurus, SE. However, I like driving the Escape better.

So, Ford has done everything possible to correct this. Road side assistance, provided by Ford, was available within 15 mins. I had it towed to the dealership where I bought it. They have always treated me well. (Dick Masheter - Ford, Columbus, OH) They immediately looked for the problem. Ford is putting in a new transmission and I have a nice "loaner" free of charge. I would rather not have encountered this problem, but it's better to have a failure at 5,100 miles, than 41,000 miles, since the Ford warranty is only 36,000 miles. Ford has truely taken care of the problem.

I'll need to check an older post, but someone had advised that Ford recommended installing a filter on any transmissions that failed. Again, Ford pays for the filter. It's $30-40. It's some type of "magnetic" filter, installed on or near the coolers ? That's all I know about it. I did inquire if Ford has this documented in any policy, procedure, or broadcast message. Might you be able to advise me on this ? Thanks in advance.

I also forgot to check on the warranty. I believe it should start new, for the new transmission. I want the new transmission warranty to be for another 36,000 miles. The odometer will read 41,100 miles. I'll need to ask. The worse they can say is, "No".

That's all for now.

Unfortunately, Justagirl is long gone from these parts at Ford's insistence.

__________________

Posted by magyart on 03-17-2004 08:48 PM:

Unfortunately, Justagirl is long gone from these parts at Ford's insistence.
...................................................................................................

Thanks for the advice. I did ask the CSR at the dealership to inquire about a "magnetic filter", to be installed by Ford, to catch any remaining metal fragments that could remain in the "system".

I welcome any good advice, in regard to this preventive action.
Thanks again.

Posted by mirt on 03-20-2004 04:11 PM:

Hi all,
I posted on another thread that I had the shudder "fixed" at the 30,000 mile service interval on my '02 Tribute. Well, the shudder is nearly gone, but I liked the way the transmission shifted BEFORE they reflashed the PCM. When I bought this car new, I was really impressed with how the O/D shifted just at the right time to add power(down to 3rd gear), or to reduce the rpm's and save fuel(shift back to O/D). Now when cruising at 40-45 mph up a slight grade, I have to manually push the O/D button "off" to shift into 3rd or else the vehicle slows down due to lack of power by staying in 4th(O/D). Kinda defeats the purpose of an "automatic" transmission when you have to push a button to shift at the proper time. I'm concerned that they reprogrammed the shift intervals to make the torque converter last longer, so to save warranty money on replacing the converter. I guess time will tell. Still, it's better than that horrible shudder!

mirt

Posted by ke4yyd on 03-20-2004 04:14 PM:

Mirt

I wonder if you have another problem. My tranny does not act that way. The Flash was done about a year ago.

David

Posted by mirt on 03-20-2004 04:40 PM:

ke4yyd

Yours shifts OK? Wow, now I'm more concerned. Thanks for the post. Anyone else experience difference in shifting after PCM reflash?

mirt

Posted by mlavander on 03-21-2004 06:41 AM:

Just about every automatic transmission with a lock up torque converter (all now-a-days) have had problems. One major cause of shudders or harsh TCC engagement/disengagement is from water in the ATF or improper ATF being installed in the trans. Automatic transmissions only operate properly with the correct fluid! The friction properties of ATF play a huge role in the trans. operation. Only use what the manufacturer suggests.

Flushing the trans. might temporarily solve the problem, but its only a temporary solution most of the time. If the radiator is leaking coolant into the trans. ATF cooling system or you never get the trans hot enough to evaporate water condensation that builds up, you are likely to have trouble.

Do what I do - buy manual transmission eqipped vehicles!! I just sold my only auto trans vehicle. (the Escape is my girlfriend's).

Just a little ranting - No one buys a manual trans vehicle anymore since it will inconvenience their cell phone usage while driving. What a bunch of BS.

Mike
Trans. Engineer for a major supplier.

Posted by 4x2 on 03-21-2004 07:09 AM:

mlavander,

Thanks for the tranny ATF tips. As for 5 speeds I have one in my ZX2 and really enjoy it - crisp shifter with a smooth light clutch. I have had many in the past but have to say that in bumper to bumper traffic (e.g. I-696 eastbound at 5:30 pm) they really suck, especially when they aren't hydraulic. Given that one fact, it's quite easy to see why people wouldn't want one.

__________________
'02 V6 4x2

- Michelin LTX M/S
- Raybestos AT pads & rotors
- Monroe Sensa-Trac Shocks & Struts
- Mercon drain 'n fill every 10K

Posted by FLCalling on 03-21-2004 08:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mlavander
Just about every automatic transmission with a lock up torque converter (all now-a-days) have had problems.

Mike
Trans. Engineer for a major supplier.

NOT!

Posted by mlavander on 03-22-2004 04:28 PM:

then why not? Gotta love the net and the one word responses.

Posted by mirt on 03-22-2004 08:38 PM:

Don't think you can say ALL have had problems, but the # of people posting with this problem leads one to believe it is, in fact, a MAJOR, pervasive problem. Could lead to a real "black eye" for ford/mazda if they don't own up. My (mazda) dealer did not dispute the problem at all, and did the Flush/Reflash without charge, but others on this forum are reporting "problem could not be duplicated" from their dealers. Best of luck to them.

Posted by Xcape on 03-22-2004 09:03 PM:

I felt the shudder recently for the first time a week ago since I bought it in january. My escape is a used 2001 XLT. It only has 21000 and I am going to do the flush to he transmission.

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Posted by FLCalling on 03-23-2004 05:26 AM:

It has not been identified as a major pervasive problem by anyone.. Escape/Tribvute deliveries are topping the 600,000 mark now. Problems are being repaired under warranty There are one heck of a lot of Escape/Tribites out there for such a small failure rate. If it were very high, this forum would light up like a Christmas tree.

Posted by mirt on 03-23-2004 03:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mlavander

Flushing the trans. might temporarily solve the problem, but its only a temporary solution most of the time. If the radiator is leaking coolant into the trans. ATF cooling system or you never get the trans hot enough to evaporate water condensation that builds up, you are likely to have trouble.

Mike
Trans. Engineer for a major supplier.

Well, FLCalling, I guess that's your opinion. I've had 8 Mazda's and my Tribute has been in the shop more times than all 7 of the others COMBINED. None had ANY transmission problems, most had over 90,000 miles. If you look at Mike's quote above about the flush being a temporary fix, and I'm not saying he is definitely correct, it makes you wonder how a simple flush could fix a mechanical "shudder" for the long run, but as I said before, time will tell the story.

mirt

Posted by Rick Zeman on 03-23-2004 04:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mirt
Well, FLCalling, I guess that's your opinion. I've had 8 Mazda's and my Tribute has been in the shop more times than all 7 of the others COMBINED. None had ANY transmission problems, most had over 90,000 miles. If you look at Mike's quote above about the flush being a temporary fix, and I'm not saying he is definitely correct, it makes you wonder how a simple flush could fix a mechanical "shudder" for the long run, but as I said before, time will tell the story.

mirt

It's not. The PCM change is the long-term fix. The "fixing the damage that's already been done" is the flush.

__________________

Posted by magyart on 03-23-2004 05:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rick Zeman
It's not. The PCM change is the long-term fix. The "fixing the damage that's already been done" is the flush.

Which models require a PCM change and is it covered by a warranty ? Yours is the first message I've read, regarding this. Please advise. Thanks.

Posted by mirt on 03-23-2004 06:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by magyart
Which models require a PCM change and is it covered by a warranty ? Yours is the first message I've read, regarding this. Please advise. Thanks.

That's my point in my previous post. As far as I can gather, you DON't get the PCM reflash unless you complain. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. I've seen posts that even with complaints, dealers are responding "cannot duplicate the problem" responses, or are paying for it because it is out of warranty. I'm referrring to the "shudder" problem. Also, can someone give me a layman's description of what the PCM reflash actually accomplishes(or changes)? Thanks

Posted by Rick Zeman on 03-23-2004 07:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by magyart
Which models require a PCM change and is it covered by a warranty ? Yours is the first message I've read, regarding this. Please advise. Thanks.

From what I've read here, some dealers do it under warranty and others haven't. Mine will when it needs to be done.

I'm guessing, but I'm sure it affects all 2001-2003's and that the changes were rolled into 2004 and 2005's.

__________________

Posted by mirt on 03-23-2004 09:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rick Zeman
and that the changes were rolled into 2004 and 2005's.

Rick, do you know what the "changes" you are referring to are, specifically? Thanks

Posted by SBrody505 on 03-24-2004 05:34 AM:

Night and Day

That is the difference after killing 3 birds with one stone at my last service visit. That is...
1. The stall/low rpm fix
2. The transmission flush and reprogram
3. The sticky throttle
I actually feel like I have a new vehicle, and I can definately tell that it did not drive like this when it was new 2 1/2 years ago.
I want to recommend Holman Ford in Mt. Laurel New Jersey because they were nothing short of excellent, professional and friendly. I must have at least 6 Ford dealers that are near or nearer than this one, including the one I bought from, but I drive out of my way to go this place. I guess the best advice I can give everyone with these ailing Escape problems is to keep trying different dealers until you get the right one. I know that's hard for some people in rural areas but if it's really bothering you, try calling some and maybe arrange for a special road trip.
I had posted back in November 2002 when they replaced the torque converter due to the transmission shudder. Since the official fix was not released until around April 2003, I figured I would mention it to them at my last visit. The gentleman did not even question me and he took care of it. If anyone has any questions about my repairs or what's printed on the work order, I would be happy to respond. My repairs include the whole gamet of Escape problems.

__________________
Drew
White 2001 XLT V6 4x4

Posted by greyboy on 03-24-2004 05:58 AM:

Re: Night and Day

quote:
Originally posted by SBrody505
If anyone has any questions about my repairs or what's printed on the work order, I would be happy to respond.

Respond me what's printed on the work order(s).

kyescaper@ky-escaper.com

__________________
I'M AS MAD AS HELL

Posted by OToole on 03-24-2004 07:06 PM:

I take great offense to the people who say Escape owners with failed transmissions are trolling the internet stirring up trouble!!!! My tranny went out at 52,000 miles. Another lady I know had hers go out at 51,000 miles...our town has a population of 5,000 people!

This is NOT a coincidence, and yes, I have heard - even from the guy who rebuilt my transmission, that the CD 4E is FAULTY! We are probably going to be hearing from alot more people, as most of the '01 and '02 Escapes are finally nearing the 50,000 mile mark.

Posted by SBrody505 on 03-25-2004 04:41 AM:

Greyboy,
I sent you image files of the repair. If there are any other repairs besides the ones I sent you, just e-mail me. Just about everything that could go wrong with my escape has gone wrong, and I have all those repair orders as well.

__________________
Drew
White 2001 XLT V6 4x4

Posted by greyboy on 03-25-2004 05:34 AM:

Thank You Drew !! I'm d-loading the file as we speak.

EDIT: I got the file as a .dat. I have no idea what to open it with. Little help?

__________________
I'M AS MAD AS HELL

Posted by SBrody505 on 03-26-2004 04:05 AM:

Greyboy, I sent them again

I sent them to your other address. They are windows bitmap (.bmp) files. I'm not sure how you got .dat files. Anyway, you should be good now.

__________________
Drew
White 2001 XLT V6 4x4

Posted by Simon on 03-28-2004 07:45 PM:

Flushed With MerconV

I haven't visited Escape-Central in a while. I thought I'd check
in to see if there are any more updates on the Shudder problem.
My '02 Escape transmission started to Shudder at about 15K miles. I took it in for the prescirbed flush/ reflash, and have had no problems since (that was 10K miles ago). My dealer flushed with MERCON V. The transmission is shifting better than it did when the truck was new. The dipstick say MERCON V.

Posted by 4x2 on 03-28-2004 08:54 PM:

Simon,

Yikes! Our CD4E trans was designed to use only Mercon ATF. Ya might wanto have your dealership redo the flush for free because they made a mistake. The long term durability of your trans is at stake. Don't let your dealership talk you out of it or "wall job" it.

__________________
'02 V6 4x2

- Michelin LTX M/S
- Raybestos AT pads & rotors
- Monroe Sensa-Trac Shocks & Struts
- Mercon drain 'n fill every 10K

Posted by Simon on 04-14-2004 04:43 AM:

We'll See!

Actually, I did go back to the dealer with my concerns. The service writer and the transmission tech both assured me that my Escape was shipped from the factory with MERCON V. I showed them the Owners Manual (which say MERCON). They said the manual was incorrect and the dipstick was right (MERCON V).
I'm just going to let it ride for now.....since I'm likely to trade it in before anymore transmission problems develop, someone else will have to deal with it......but if I start having problems, it seems to me that I have a pretty good case for free warranty work even after the warranty expires....

Posted by 4x2 on 04-14-2004 05:52 AM:

Good luck!

Posted by magyart on 04-18-2004 04:37 AM:

Re: We'll See!

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Actually, I did go back to the dealer with my concerns. The service writer and the transmission tech both assured me that my Escape was shipped from the factory with MERCON V. I showed them the Owners Manual (which say MERCON). They said the manual was incorrect and the dipstick was right (MERCON V).
I'm just going to let it ride for now.....since I'm likely to trade it in before anymore transmission problems develop, someone else will have to deal with it......but if I start having problems, it seems to me that I have a pretty good case for free warranty work even after the warranty expires....

Keep your documentation, if something goes wrong, they will never remember.

Posted by Rick Zeman on 04-18-2004 04:59 AM:

Re: We'll See!

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Actually, I did go back to the dealer with my concerns. The service writer and the transmission tech both assured me that my Escape was shipped from the factory with MERCON V. I showed them the Owners Manual (which say MERCON). They said the manual was incorrect and the dipstick was right (MERCON V).
I'm just going to let it ride for now.....since I'm likely to trade it in before anymore transmission problems develop, someone else will have to deal with it......but if I start having problems, it seems to me that I have a pretty good case for free warranty work even after the warranty expires....

"If you knew we were wrong you shouldn't have waited so long...." "Why didn't you have the dealership verify it?" "Sorry, you're on your own...."

__________________

Posted by Rick Zeman on 04-18-2004 05:00 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by greyboy
Thank You Drew !! I'm d-loading the file as we speak.

EDIT: I got the file as a .dat. I have no idea what to open it with. Little help?

Winmail.dat?

__________________

Posted by greyboy on 04-18-2004 05:51 AM:

Nope, neither of us know what happened. The files had the correct filenames, with the extension of .dat. They even had the correct file size. I initially tried loading the files in IrfanView, as it (if actually opening a graphics file) will pop up a window and ask if you know that the file has a wrong extension. IrfanView did not recognize the file at all. I opened one of the files in a hex viewer next, and the file header was nothing like a .jpg or .bmp, etc.
He resent the files, and they all transmitted correctly. Only the shadow knows on this one.

__________________
I'M AS MAD AS HELL

Posted by normie on 02-03-2005 06:01 PM:

Finally got my truck back... 5 repairs later here are the things I have noticed.

there are 4 different shift characteristics.

1.) normal shift

2.) a stutter shift - where it feels like the gear slides in and back out then fully in (about a second or so during the shift)

3.) the slosh shift.. Where it makes the car feel like it sloshed into gear

4.) Hard shift - it seems to wait for the highest RPM and slam into gear..

I also noticed my gas mileage so far went from 16-22 MPG (depending on driving conditions) down to 14 MPG for my first full tank of gas..

I think this transmission will probably hold out for a month or two before it goes again..

Posted by mlavander on 02-03-2005 06:14 PM:

deleted

Posted by normie on 02-03-2005 06:35 PM:

I said it "Feels like" the gears slide out and in.. Not that this is actually happening..

These shifts can happen at any time while driving.. Cold, Hot, just statring off, on the highway... Doesn't matter

Well it seems like you are confirming it, my trans will probably not last long!

Posted by 4x2 on 02-03-2005 11:05 PM:

normie,

Man, that sucks. After what you've been through Ford should really step up and help out in some way. Have ya contacted a lawyer yet?

I'd really like to know what exactly it is that causes only a few of the CD-4Es to fail. My '02 works so well I deliberately told the dealer not to reflash it. I do drain/refill the ATF every 10K but I doubt that's why it works as it should.

Posted by Xcape on 02-03-2005 11:42 PM:

Isnt 10k a bit too often for tranny oil, the recomended milege is every 30k.

Posted by 4x2 on 02-03-2005 11:58 PM:

Xcape,

Ya have two options:

1. A complete flush every 30k to replace all 10.2 qts which costs anywhere from $80 - $160 at a shop.

2. My method - a 3.9 qt drain/fill every 10k which takes less time than an oil change and costs $6.00 if ya DIY.

Posted by normie on 04-04-2005 06:33 PM:

Re: RE

quote:
Originally posted by 4x2
normie,

Man, that sucks. After what you've been through Ford should really step up and help out in some way. Have ya contacted a lawyer yet?

I'd really like to know what exactly it is that causes only a few of the CD-4Es to fail. My '02 works so well I deliberately told the dealer not to reflash it. I do drain/refill the ATF every 10K but I doubt that's why it works as it should.

One would think that as a customer retention/service tactic that Ford would have been more helpful to me, and with the issue/repairs. Basically, customer service, and the dealerships have been as hands off, and stuck me with as much expence as possible. No I have not contacted a lawyer, since that would cost me more money, and I am certain I would get nowhere with any type of lawsuit, since it was "repaired" and under extended warranty.

That said.. I will never buy a Ford product again, not because of the issues with the escape, but the general treatment and disinterest by Ford Dealers and Representatives. With all the problems "the Big Three" seem to be having, I might not buy American again.. and that just pains me to say!

Posted by tnronin on 06-08-2006 07:23 PM:

Just wanted to wake this one up again. I'm having the problems with the escape as well. Got a 2001, I have had to change the differential out already, and now this. I called the Ford Corp office and they told me the vehicle had been flashed, but now it is doing it. I'm going to have the wife dummy up and take it to the Ford dealer to see if they will flash it again. It should take too long provided access is easy. I hope.

Posted by rkaplan129 on 08-07-2006 05:42 AM:

Hi All,

My 2001 escape with 65k miles on it appears to be doing this studdering. Is the fix for this a tranny flush and flash? How much will this flashing cost me? i'm way out of warranty.

Posted by tnronin on 08-07-2006 05:58 AM:

Sorry, I forgot to update this. The tranny took a crap on us, we had to replace it. I picked one up from a rebuild company in Pheonix. Cost us $1300+200 for a two year warranty. $600 for the install locally. Turns out the differential was bad due to an idiot towing it w/out a roll-back, or disconnecting the drive shaft. I made the tow truck guy replace it at his cost.

This incident has cost Ford any further business and my good will. I have been a Ford man for nearly 40 years, not anymore. Shame on them, now they have lost my business, my family's business and anyone else I can let know about this.

Posted by EsCaper12 on 05-25-2007 09:22 PM:

Sorry to bump this old thread but I just saw it.

I had a pcm flash done in 04 I think...the code was something like...107a-some numbers here-axf.

Is that the same flash and flush as this thread mentions? My 01 just broke 30k miles and isn't under warranty but from this thread it says they should still change it for free since it is under 36k miles right?

Posted by EsCaper12 on 05-30-2007 06:18 AM:

Anyone know?

Posted by fred0803 on 05-31-2007 06:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by EsCaper12
Anyone know?

Call your dealer, if you have 6 year old trans fluid in there that's not a good thing either.

Posted by Big Jim on 05-31-2007 06:34 PM:

Whatever the latest available flash will include the trans shift strategy improvements.

I had mine flashed shortly after I bought it to make sure that I had the latest one available. I bought it in July of 03. I did notice an improvement in overall shift quality. This was after the stalling recall (the flash for which included the improved trans strategy).

The downside is that the top speed limiter was reduced to 100 MPH.

If you had the flash in 04 I'm reasonably sure that it was late enough to have the trans strategy improvements.

__________________
Jim Johnson
03 Escape Limited
10 Fusion Sport
98 Contour SVT

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